How much timing for methanol. 8 V6 running 25lbs and 25* of timing on 91 octane.
How much timing for methanol Slower ignition timing makes higher exhaust gas temperatures. There is no boost loss from methanol (actually a boost gain [~1 pound] from increased adiabatic efficiency of the blower, if you spray pre-blower), and you can run much more timing with methanol due to the increased octane rating. Now when your using race gas, c16 or similiar, thats a different story. There will be a balance between raising the boost and making the timing slower. I lowered the timing to 25* and burned a headgasket. 427 ERL Twin Borg Warner Billet 80 mm's on Methanol And Holley EFI!!!!! Save Share Reply Quote Like. For this reason I do not lean on methanol, and I do not recommend tuning for additional timing when using methanol. At some point you will be better off I have a fairly agressive ignition curve coupled with an agressive timing / boost pull if the meth was to fail. 3 EB Explorer is ok to run 87 but for the best "power" it's recommended to use 91 or higher, which is 93 usually. Dont send me pics of your plugs, Outlaw 10. That comes up to ~22% greater injector headroom required for E25. 1 to 11. 5 times more fuel than the same motor using petrol. Methanol injection, using -40 wiper fluid which is a 50/50 meth water mix. 756 posts · Joined 2016 Add to quote; Only show this user #2 · Aug 15, 2022 @TurboII has a great writeup on this for a starting point, and for the life of me I can never To take advantage of the power increases methanol can offer, it does require a much higher volume fuel system. it will With Meth Injection on this kit he was able to add in an extra 2-3 degrees of timing across the entire power band. 4 psi @ 5000 rpm it shows 1402 @5500 it shows 1468 @ 1532. I left the timing locked at 30* and lifted the ring lands on 2 pistons and damaged a cylinder wall on the 1st E85 pass. My best pull came in at 451 The methanol acts as a high-octane fuel which can increase power output, while the water helps to cool the intake charge and reduce engine knock. The water methanol injection isn't timing limited like that of pump gas. View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Tuner Join Date Mar 2012 Posts 95. Car is 3600 lbs, 3000 converter, 4. Yes, I’m running Alky single nozzle 100% meth with 93. In 6 to 12 PSI boost range my Lambda readings are in the low 7's to High 6's but my EGT readings are 1300 degrees Fahrenheit sometimes more. [1] [2] Decreased vision may start as early as twelve hours after exposure. Throw in modern "fast burn" chambers and the old generic timing numbers get thrown out the window. it takes the commanded high octane values at WOT no issues and would likely take more in the low RPM area. per ci. You will make lots of save power on good pump gas with 6+/- boost . I have wasted more time chasing a new methanol tuneup with cold spark plugs. for the record, on methanol and 10. Crank trigger set a 34, after 7730 box I have 32 at the plug. However, the number of pounds of fuel in the blown top fuel engine are much greater. A real world example. Jump to Latest 9. Set it up with an alkycontrol methanol system, dual nozzle, and 93 octane. It had nice power and the mpg was around 23-25 at high speeds, ie 75-85 There is a lot of misconception around the differences in how we optimise our ignition timing when using ethanol based fuels compared to gasoline. Unfortunately, I don't have a large enough turbo to hit 385whp on 93; the S3 hotside doesn't facilitate enough timing to get there. no. Heat of vaporization for methanol -1147 kg/kj, gasoline -307, ethanol -873. Joined: Apr 14, 2011 Messages: 58 Likes Received: 0. 5:1 CR, 445 Windsor, Flying Toilet, Crank Trigger). 5 on the run and my fuel map shows at 11. Given that methanol creates a much cooler combustion event, would it be wise to maybe start with a 7? when pulling the timing is there a limit to how much to pull. And, if you tune for 100% methanol and you accidently run out once, your f'ed in the a. Don't get greedy on the boost and or timing without good high octane gas and a correct fuel curve. The time from spark until pressure is quicker than gas, in most cases. 3V Performance Vendor Location: Denver, N. I've read and been told by many different sources that a 50/50 should make the effective octane rating to somewhere between 120-125, which in turn should allow for more timing. 183 posts · Joined 2006 Add to quote; Only show this user High octane gas and or water/methanol injection allows more timing under boost and or more boost and or more mechanical compression ratio and makes more power. 41 / 1. 8-12. Both setups running 16 psi boost. 64nailhead. A/F and timing will depend on boost and the rest of your combo. 6378 posts · Joined 2013 Add to quote; Only show this user #1 · May 28, 2017 (Edited The one thing that is very good about alcohol is that it will make your engine run MUCH cooler- like 40 to 50 degrees cooler JOE SHERMAN RACING ENGINES. 1. I know you have access to a dyno so Im curious about your thoughts. These agents improve cleaning performance, ensuring effective removal of debris. 2 because the pass Three primary families of catalysts have been reported for CO 2 hydrogenation to methanol: i) copper-based, ii) indium oxide (In 2 O 3)-based, and iii) mixed zinc–zirconium oxides (ZnZrO x)-based materials (Figure 1). 7813) would be a good place to start. 0) as Nitro is very sensittive to that. Water/methanol injection will really allow you to unleash the hounds More boost/drive pulley ratio and max Wastegate-timing Questions i have a similar question I have a 427w with TFS High Ports with a t6 1. Your results may vary depending upon compression ratio and the water has a much higher latent heat than methanol, so it can remove the most heat. Personally, I'd never run 100% corn when I'm already spraying that much methanol. 6 GPH) means I'll have 5000cc (~80 GPH total) anyways. Effects of spark timing and methanol addition on combustion characteristics and emissions of dual-fuel engine fuelled with natural gas and My timing is already 40-41 normally, I do gain a little mph with 1-2 more, but usually don't bother. So in other words, you would need to leave a 1 cm 2 spot of methanol on your hand for 1500 hours in order to absorb enough to go blind. 7 million mtpa demand expected in 2023E, CAGR 3. . Do you keep pulling timing or is there a mark that you don't go past. 75mph in West Coast Outlaw 10. You get a steam effect too-keeps inside engine clean, and increases pressure a bit. Its going to take a Then put in the big cam / CR and run it on methanol ? Spend the money on a good rotating assembly to get the cubes and compression. 3 is set at 28. JW #11. Sort by Oldest first Oldest Methanol: A common solvent used to prevent the fluid from freezing. That's the ricer math, anyways, we'll see what reality brings. “If you look at the calorific value, petrol is higher than methanol and that leads some people to say petrol is a better fuel,” he said. I don't know if you have This one predicts methanol absorption through the skin of about 2 mg/cm 2 /hr. You won't see much on your iat's-it happens in the cylinder. Lowering timing, and getting the fuel mixture CORRECT will result in quicker times, a more consistent car, and a happier engine. True that old BBC heads under 500 cubes and 14:1 seem to always need 38-42 degrees advance but then there are some gas engines running in the same range. My timing in that range is 34 34 degrees. This was a small enough amount to not drown out the spark and give the benefits of water. " 4 bolt or 6 bolt heads and what gasket setup?? I normally use a little What is too much timing and what is too less ? Great information in the last thread hope this one can produce the same results because the information here is helping everyone who has questios and new the methanol game!!! Thanks . 03-16-2016 #3. ProPower engines Guru Posts: 8785 Joined: Sun This method allows you to build a safe, consistent timing table that you can still tweak once it's working good and you can read the plugs etc. 5, with the Methanol flowing we would run a little leaner in the same application, like 11. 5-1 comp (stock engine comp), 11 psi of boost from a D1sc and never get any detectable KR I am running an A2A intercooler, the Alky control meth and only around 19* timing under boost(lsx (detonation) Methanol burns "longer" than gas. Ls2 with ls3 heads tvs blower I'd like alittle more boost but I only have 93 available and don't want to I will even give you a tune up for VP M5 if have your motor tuned on methanol now. When using a race gas with a water methanol injection system your going to need to throw another 2-3 degree's timing into it just to make up for the water methanol injection system. i think it Low timing and set fuel. my total timing on the SBC was 36ish. Change stoich value to methanol and tune it like normal. 0 w/ hand ported 317's, coated dished piston. On a gas scale, on E85, the leaner i made my setup, the more power it made (picked up 100whp going from 11. redhardsupra. I have seen injection nozzles clog up because of the extra lube. It had nice power and the mpg was around 23-25 at high speeds, ie 75-85 mph for hours on Parametric study on effects of methanol injection timing and methanol substitution percentage on combustion and emissions of methanol/diesel dual-fuel direct injection engine at full load Fuel , 279 ( 2020 ) , Article 118424 , 10. Originally E85 is a much better choice for both imo, at least with a boosted car. bill, Aug 19, 2009. 34 9. I just heard that 50/50 is the best for street applications, because the water cools the charge better and the methanol allows for more timing. Timing locked at 32 degrees - I don't pull any timing as boost goes up (if I was 15 lbs or more, I might think about pulling timing - or just lock it at a lower point). 0:1 or richer if you do not compensate by commanding less gasoline in the tune. Of course, Tuning has a large part to play as well so always make sure you use an experienced tuner. My current timing on the 5. A lot of the information seems dated. 0 sbe on methanol so at6-10 psi, don’t pull anything? n/air is running the best at 31 degrees . the M-3 and M-5 methanol available from VP containes MTBE, an oxygentating chemical additive that is HIGHLY TOXIC and does make more power. The people degrees of timing is common. It really depends on how much timing is in it and how solid the tune is. Take care, K. Now I'm wondering with my Lambda AFR quitequite on the rich side why is my egts going over 1300 Admittedly, this doesn't go into much detail about where in the RPM range the timing was changed, but the point is that the timing didn't change much with e85. Every few years, depending how much I race it, I dingleball-hone it, throw in fresh rings, touch up the valve job, new valve APTuning have tested methanol fuel extensively over the last five years and have learned how to set up engines and carburetors for most engine applications. No meth, want to try around 18lbs on pump gas. Flowing enough alcohol fuel into the induction system means not only having jets with 60 percent more area (ethanol) or 260 percent more area (methanol), but also having How much more timing should I be able to run? I would see where my IAT's were while spraying and tune the higher IAT's to take out a lot of timing in case the meth failed. 12-24-2008 #2. 8 to 12. Get the turbos to spoil and then maintain spoil If you really, really want some low end with a turbo setup and don't mind some loss in fuel economy AND your running a nearly stock ls3, then add 12 to 15 to your injection timing boundary table I would much rather run a hotter spark plug and pull a little timing out than the other way around. Once Meth is added, then you can add timing and make the power your after. Each degree/psi is worth around 20whp, so that's a 120+whp gain, estimated of course. 0 a/f (. prost63vette. Make a couple 1/8 mile passes, read the plugs and adjust your fuel and timing by what the pugs tell you. 80 a/f straight across; and then find what timing it likes. If that's 10, 13, 15:1, so be it (if you're racing a methanol engine with a small enough cam to get good enough drivability on 10:1, you're probably not a serious meth racer, and might not always run on methanol). 00:30: Before we go too much further, let's revisit what we're trying to achieve when we're optimising the ignition Water or water/methanol injection is a well established<br /> technique for reducing the knock sensitivity of an engine<br /> running on fuel with a low octane rating. net recommends a max of 50/50 mixture: "A 50/50 ratio is recommended. jsimmons Discussion starter. Bottom line is LOOK AT THE SPARK PLUGS . 0:1 AFR at full throttle before adding meth, it will be 11. One of the most damaging things I have seen to a water meth system is using TAP water. So in my case at 11 im pulling 5. example; if your running a 90 pill drop to a 82 pill. So comparing Q16 to methanol fuel, or C16 I should say to methanol fuel, you'll make more power out of the same engine combination on methanol every time. I try to keep the AFR at 11. Comax Racing Member. An increase in timing was needed for best power. After spending time as a Marine, Kyle Thompson returned to civilian life with a serious need for speed. I want to start adding timing to my tune but want to stay within limits that are known. 5 psia) 5. D3 case spacer, 63lb injectors,160 deg T stat and AlcoholInjection Methanol trunk tank and dual injectors controlled by a Cooling Mist CMGA controller mounted where the clock Adding the methanol will make the engine RICHER. 3K views 9 replies 5 participants last post by jsimmons May 29, 2017. If I'm using regular methanol now, should I try M3 or M5? A. 5 legal trim C6 Forced Induction/Nitrous - how much boost is "safe" on 93 octane - I'm seeing about 8. bandit496, Nov 21, 2012. as the residual minerals and algae in it glog up pumps and injectors. View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Tuner in Training Join Date Mar 2012 Posts 19. JMHO '71 Z28 street strip car I am pulling 20 degrees for start retard, advance begins at 850, setting advance all in at 32 degrees by 2800. 24@185 1625lbs 36 nozzels,54 main,36* timing so i think afr 12 + methanol with total afr of 10. Save Share Reply Quote Like. It is making good mph (123 in 1/8th), but it’s 60ft is terrible right now. 42 @ 142. timing isn't really black and white. The ignition timing was kept constant at 20 degrees, while the air/fuel ratio for each A high compression ratio engine ( 9:1 or more) will require high octane gas or charge intercooling or water methanol injection or be limited to very modest boost. Have you checked your plugs lately? Fuel: e85 and 100% methanol 630 ml/min nozzle Max Boost: 17psi Total timing: 19-20* at the hit and 15-16* up top with a gradual taper Knock: -7* Knock on the hit and -2* knock up top But it will tell how much timing is commanded in the tune versus how much is being added with the sensors. This quest When reading spark plugs when using methanol you don't go by the color of the porcelain you go by the heat line going up the threads. The post above 16 psi is amazing, that must of been a very quality tune. I just wanted to check out the Methanol to see if, maybe, there was a silver bullet;) I am still interested in what you smart guys have to say about timing tho'. 76 lambda and 34 degrees timing with 1000cc injectors at about We run 11:75 to 1 with 40lbs. When the meth quits unexpectedly and there is any additional timing I have a buddy who wanted to be about 5. of boost and 34 degrees of timing, to make 4hp. Particularly on turbo charged engines running on gasoline, we'll usually find that the ignition timing is limited by the knock threshold. Afr target table and timing for methanol. The ignition system also requires attention. It also says that the oral dose that could cause blindness is about 3g. once you start The methanol acts as a high-octane fuel which can increase power output, while the water helps to cool the intake charge and reduce engine knock. Enough timing? Too much? Your thoughts are appreciated. 0 lbs/hr per HP. boost being the biggest factor. A/f shows fat like target is 3. I think that if I had started with an 8 or maybe even a 7 it would have calmed me down a bit regarding throwing timing at this bitch. 00:1 - also adding more timing while the methanol is flowing. I want to remove methanol from 2 ml mixture of 50/50 water/methanol (as a solvent for primary metabolite extraction) and it is recommended to me to use speed vac instrument. Ignition timing goes along with it also,much more than 64-65 degrees lead makes it a real animal,prone to burning piston(s),etc. Meth is making our 93 pump gas run 118 so I'm able to push 20*. Some Midget racers from the '50s On 93 I went from running 15-18* timing at 12psi, to 21* timing at 15psi on meth. Any hints? Don't know anything about the blower deals. So what if the throttle was stomped and the water/methanol tank was empty? Well that’s not ideal because of the much more aggressive tune with more To get things started, we ran the non-intercooled, turbo motor at a peak boost pressure near 13 psi. The injection timing of methanol play a crucial role in enhancing fuel droplet dispersion, evaporation, mixing an attainment of a homogeneous mixture in controlling the combustion and emission formation under wider range of equivalence ratios [1,30,31]. And 3400cc stock DI system (which is ~54 GPH) plus another 1600cc of methanol (25. That is why snowperformance. "He who is without oil shall throw the first rod. Boost can often be increased five or more psi. Example: One methanol combustion engineering test measured a 22% reduction in methanol flame speed for a 19% increase in fuel enrichment. Timing would fluctuate before based on the quality of the 93 before, now it stays consistent. A fuel engine leaves the line with 40 to 45 degrees of ignition advance Nostalgia fuel cars might be a bit more aggressive and not pull out as much timing before 60ft. Engine Tech - 33 Degrees timing in 406SBC on Methanol??? - Looking for some input on timing on a 406 sbc. As a result, the mixture is run rich for more cooling. just go slow and bring IGN up 1 at a time. Thanks! I did not mess with ignition timing but I don't think I'll find that much speed to make it worth going to the Meth. The methanol ignites first, which sets off the nitro. Relative humidity right now is 6%. Send Private Topic View Profile. It is a light, volatile, colorless and flammable liquid with a distinctive alcoholic odor similar to that of ethanol It’s interesting you mention that about pulling timing with rpm because I was wondering if that is what mine is going to like. Ran 32 degrees of timing. heck when I started running meth i ran 7 degrees at 26PSI lol. Thankyou !!!! Top. 4% ‘23E-’28E –Methanol’s remarkable versatility in use has, will secure its future. you must realize while yes there are many variables this igntion system was designed in 1969 off the lc350 yamaha road bike giving a weak poor performance curve especially after hopups are performed . This used to be common additive in unleaded I want as much advance as possible but I also run a timing computer to pull advance out under boost . I'm getting different info from different sources on the amount of timing to run with methanol. 6 degrees. 6. and it starts at 12. Our plugs show color, but there not black or anything. 7 on a gas scale). Engine 1-434 sbc/glide dragster best et 7. The increased enrichment lowers the air/fuel ratio number even more. Sort by Oldest first Oldest first Newest first Most reactions. So, if 3542/385 = 9. 0 -2. chamber design, 2 valve vs 4, hemi vs heart shaped, ALL impact how much timing the engine will tolerate the "hook test" at wot on the dyno you advance timing until the engine doesn't make more power and back off just a bit on the pent roof, dished pistons in the old LT5 DOHC engine, ZR-1, the engine made same power at 29 as it did at 31. Boost retard is 1 deg per pound of boost. While VP's M2 is excellent for use for straight methanol, I don't recommend adding it to M5. In this<br /> webinar we will look at tuning an AEM water/methanol<br A lot depends on the size of the combustion chamber (small versus large) and valve overlap and timing. My biggest concern is from my understanding methanol is pretty corrosive. 5 lbs max in my hp tuner log. 56 cc/hp. 996 60ft, 4. 0 to 1 for peak power) so When I ran 91 octane and meth inj on my grand national I mixed about 3% water by volume into my meth tank. 00 @ #3251 Better in 2023 427 BBC by S&S Speed Center, AFD, Enderle MFI by Spud Miller The rest out of your ignition timing will follow your stock timing map just -20*. Too much heat gets bottlenecked, and we start seeing knock. Methanol can act as an octane booster. 00:30: Before we go too much further, let's revisit what we're trying to achieve when we're optimising the ignition There is no rule of thumb on how much timing or boost can be increased when running water methanol injection system. Take care, K Ok . Less ignition timing is needed for higher power ignition systems. That was on a 9:1 3. 8 degrees per pound and I start my total at 35 and only make 11 psi so but don't start pulling till 4 psi. Last year driving from NJ to Key West we used only premium. Toward the end I really wanted to try an 8 as the 9 wasn't showing much heat. I had this one at 17psi but it was just too much for the stock internals. 10 gear. 81 @ 136 at 3,000 pounds. FWIW . Methanol likes RICH fuel mixtures (from 4. That’s. 1016/j. That is the sweet spot most shops won't go over. Don't touch your timing or nozzles, simple drop 2 pill sizes. In the 30 to 35 # boost range. Merry Christmas! Bill Winters Former owner/builder/tuner of the FarmVette Out of the LSx tuning game. Dyes: Provide color, making it easy to identify the fluid in the reservoir. 8 it has gotten down to 2. It won’t ignite and more than 90% nitro is not allowed under most sanctioning bodies, some Don't know exactly how much timing is retarded using 87 vs 93, but it is retarded some what. [6, 8-12] Copper-based systems, notably Cu–ZnO–Al 2 O 3, emerged in 1966 for large-scale methanol production from syngas (CO + 2H 2 ⇌ CH 3 OH). 5 to 1 to 6. Unless you've already tried M3 with success (and M3 works great in many applications), I'd go right from regular methanol to M5. I’m not seeing any KR on a pull Outlaw 10. 62 at 140 mph at 3950 lbs. La RPM. Methanol also lowers the inlet temps quite a bit - as much as 60 - 100+ degrees. Total timing will vary quite a bit from one setup to the next, but without methanol, you will definitely have less. Once he had it dialed in they did several pulls and the results were fantastic. [2] Long-term outcomes may include I want to remove methanol from 2 ml mixture of 50/50 water/methanol (as a solvent for primary metabolite extraction) and it is recommended to me to use speed vac instrument. You should try taking out less timing before you add the methanol injection, because if you are getting detonation with that much timing taken out you will probably be masking a problem. Max timing on a pull is 16. For a blown alcohol engine with an old 2 primary ampere magneto, 38 degrees of Try and bump the timing up 1 degree at a time and scan for KR in 4th gear (3rd for an A4) A common mistake is checking for KR in only 1st or 2nd gear, when the load on the motor is lower than the 1:1 gear. He started Thompson Motorsports to feed his passion, and today the Texas-based engine shop churns out 550 engines a year like this 440 cid LSX methanol engine for radial drag racing! Find out went into this low 4-second engine build! Lastly, everything else equal, a car spraying methanol will run better at the track than a car running an intercooler. 03-17-08 10:29 AM - Post# 1390084 Race engines designed for use with Methanol or Nitromethane need an even larger amount of advance to ignite these slow burning racing fuels in time to Much research on PFI methanol engines have been published and verified the higher fuel efficiency and lower emissions of methanol compared with gasoline. 540 BBC, 14-71, 30 lbs boost. JMHO '71 Z28 street strip car Pump gas So if your boosted combo is safe and runs good with a A/F of 11. I started on 10* to begin with. Injecting fuel too early results in fuel droplet impinging on piston crown and cylinder wall, whereas delayed injection advancing the timing by up to 4 degrees* on a banshee is always a gain and is confirmed on dynos ,you wont lose power on this model at this range . How much timing (and any ideas on timing curve) with this on 92 PUMP GAS? Apparently makes about 6 lbs. C. 600ish 114 cam manual. VYSSLS1. 5 1963 Tommy Mauney Corvette 393ci SBC, 23deg AFR 220cc, Twin 88mm precision turbos, Holley Dominator EFI, on methanol. Baddest 23 Deg SBC on the planet : . It's fairly Ethanol and methanol have high octane ratings, allowing for more compression without the risk of knock. We may need to replace pistons or modify the cylinder head to achieve this. HB 2300 blower and full exhaust. 11psi full boost pump fuel. My intake air temps are never more than 10deg above ambient. 2 cc/hp (E25), and 2910/385 = 7. “But it doesn’t take into account On my combination I have a small on methanol and turbocharged. Gasoline is more volatile, has a lower octane typically (pump gas) but higher BTU, so you cannot throw as much timing at it, but now we're getting into a fuel discussion. Cam is 240/238 115. The following is a list of tips that every methanol fuel user should be aware of. •Conventional methanol uses will drive GDP-multiple demand growth –108. Year: 17 GT Fuel: 93 with 60/40 meth/water 625 ml/min Snow nozzle Max LS3 HB2300 11psi. 5* max boost is 10 psi. While on pump gas and with a 50/50 mix of water methanol. 40. Lowering the timing with this combination (too much timing, too much fuel) will slow the car down. Typically, methanol comprises 30-50% of the total composition. If that full advance moves the rotor by 25 crankshaft degrees and our initial timing How much does timing effect egts? specifically too little timing? I have 21degrees total at boost level I am currently at 32-34psi Its on methanol M5 cheers Richie . Also using ngk 5671-8 I am tuning my first lm7 timing and am used to SBC timing. We command less gasoline to allow the methanol to do its job of cooling and enhancing octane; thus allowing more boost or timing to be run. As a example you take 1 degree per pound and you hit 20 pounds that's 20 Particularly on turbo charged engines running on gasoline, we'll usually find that the ignition timing is limited by the knock threshold. Gower said the ballpark figure is about 2. I'm currently running 30* (14. I’m not seeing any KR on a pull This video is not intended in any way shape or form telling you how to read spark plugs. Before you reach boost (0-14. cooled. I thought about adding some timing down low to see if it wakes up. Detergents: Help break down stubborn dirt and grime. I'm installing a new crank-trigger ignition system and phased distributor on my 427 SBC race engine and wanted to get some opinions on how much timing to start with. 5 seconds when the timing gets cut down to 3-5 degrees to stop the wheel spin. I use a Mallory Comp 250 methanol electric pump, DO NOT use aluminum fuel line. Yikes, Everybody said E85 loves timing and my previous tune was for 93octane before I went to E85. 32 ar im doing it as a Blow Thru and going to try the methanol injection to get it going till i get money for air -water intercooler What size Wastegate and Blow off i was thinking a 60mm and a 50mm ? can i use my 7al2 box ?? When we switched to Mallory 4's had to back the timing to the 30-35 range but also had 14's on at the 45%. So how much more methanol is Looking for tuning help. that the lower the static compression, and the bigger the cam ,the more initial timing she likes. 30gph worth of nozzle around 150 psi. Without meth 16 is close to disaster. When reading spark plugs when using methanol you don't go by the color of the porcelain you go by the heat line going up the threads. This can allow<br /> additional power to be made through the ability to advance<br /> the ignition timing to MBT, increase boost, or both. The advantages of methanol and ethanol are there abiility to absorb heat and reduce the intake charge temp. the higher the boost the less you'll be able to advance the timing. 0 a/f (lamda . The car has run 9. Thanks, Tom PS. i ran it on c16 and car ran great but when I changed to e85 it picked up 155 hp and 100 ft but I ran more boost timing and the e85 made the motor run cooled. You should fix the tuneup first so you have a nice even 11. When combined with the cooler air intake charge created by the water and methanol, these changes can net a horsepower increase of up to 20 percent in power-adder applications. As far as timing goes, I have Calculated BSFC for methanol is 1. would 10 be safe or pushing it ? I will even give you a tune up for VP M5 if have your motor tuned on methanol now. Holley and many aftermarket Holley specialists offer metering blocks specifically for ethanol- and methanol-based fuels. When you have established the timing requirments dial in a mechanical+ vacuum advance combo curve and integrate the boost retard if you want. The old mechanical advance distributor was somewhat hit-and Important thing with turbos is to add timing in the lower engine load areas and from 3500ish to 4500ish in full engine load areas. For cruising I've messed with the timing to see what the effects are on coolant temps. I currently have 35 at 100kpa 24 at 250kpa With a linear transition. 50-11. 2020. 00:24: This means that the engine begins knocking or detonating before we reach peak torque. I use a Mallory Comp 250 methanol electric pump, big port Holley methanol DO NOT use aluminum fuel line. 5 AFR. Then comes the point of how many 750hp SBC's do you see in bracket racing anyway. The methanol is very corrosive to aluminum. Put a carb on it. Being able to add more timing and boost pressure while still maintaining a safe knock threshold is the direct result of the cooling effect of the water and the high octane level of the methanol. Heck, I may I am reading about what guys are running for a gen1 SBC (23 degree) ignition timing. Adding the methanol will make the engine RICHER. 8 V6 running 25lbs and 25* of timing on 91 octane. There's videos on this all over youtube and in books. At present, methanol PFI is a relatively mature technology. there allot of factors that will contribute to how much timing you can run. Ran it at the track last nite, started at 24 degrees timing, ran a 10. Q. 28 5. Yep, it's a dry heat. Post by 3V Performance » Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:45 pm. 028 plug Also wondered how much boost I can run on pump. fuel. Fueling Up And Methanol MadnessI would like to know how much methanol I need to add to 91-octane pump gas to keep a 12. rons toilet/terminator running methanol. if K control isn't budging. 96 @ 115. That being said let's say 30* is our base timing so it's not a turd down low or hard to get up on the converter. 05@ 184. Powerhouse. How much more can I add safely? I feel The blower will idle much cleaner with lots of idle timing, right up to locked out. You CAN tune for additional boost pressure, however, because there is a big difference between over-timed when the meth shuts off, and over-boosting when the meth shuts off. Depending on the application and engine combo will vary. Outlaw 10. 5 legal trim Had the car running at the track and dyno ed last season on 112 octane race fuel, hp was 795 rwhp, ran 9. 2lsa. Lastly, everything else equal, a car spraying methanol will run better at the track than a car running an intercooler. R. This can mean that if the engine was running 12. So what if the throttle was stomped and the water/methanol tank was empty? Well that’s not ideal because of the much more aggressive tune with more timing and boost can lead to detonation, so there are many safety features built in to keep an engine from going boom in a big way. Not sure where prior owner had timing, as the top rod bearing shells were to copper. This dual effect allows for more aggressive ignition timing and a richer air-to Additionally, nitro methanol mixtures burn hotter than straight methanol. 5 AFR on the transition Don't know exactly how much timing is retarded using 87 vs 93, but it is retarded some what. 5 to 6. Unless you prefer poor throttle response poor warm up, fouled plugs, stinky idle and blower back fires that will damage the blower. The ECM will also add timing or pull timing dependant on coolant temps and IAT2 temps. The idea behind water-methanol injection is simple: more effective octane and colder intake air temperatures (IATs) suppress detonation and allow more boost and ignition timing to be utilized for The methanol acts as a high-octane fuel which can increase power output, while the water helps to cool the intake charge and reduce engine knock. I've been tuning traction control via cutting timing and I've seen the EGT's climb from 1500ish to 1800 in less than 1. Anything different than the number you have might indicate problems. Learning everyday. We don't pull any timing until 5psi(super safe) then pull 1* for every 1# of boost. difference being its straight into the 11. 5 legal trim Post: Does 42 degrees total timing sound excessive for SBC? (Topic#184852) DZ302LC Member Posts: 167 Reg: 03-29-04. 1973 RS Z28: 401ci Dart Little M Turbo Charged 434 SBC TURBO TIMING (detonation) Methanol burns "longer" than gas. 0 AFR for max power, but sounds like many are going 3. 625 lamda) under full load and go from there. Methanol is so much easier on the engine I will never go to gas in a race I've also thought about methanol injection since on 92 octane gas the car just pulls so much timing at 14-15psi of boost and ethanol isn't exactly available locally. Fun stuff to race with. 95@164 1585lbs 35 nozzels,70 main,36* timing Engine 2-572 bbc/gide dragster best et 7. Is mid to upper twenties pretty standard for an NA ls engine or is higher pretty normal? What do you tend to see for maximum timing for maximum power output? Ethanol has a faster burn speed then gasoline so you dont need as much timing advance to get proper ignition 07-25-2018 #20. I'd think if you're setting timing by twisting a dizzy, starting with a gasoline optimal setting would be good enough to start and drive, and then tune it for max power just like you would for gas. This is of course assuming this spot Methanol toxicity (also methanol poisoning) is poisoning from methanol, characteristically via ingestion. 118424 Water/methanol injection allows for a much more aggressive tune. I've got it tuned at around . summitcb Member. If you have the budget this is the painless way to go. Water/methanol injection allows for a much more aggressive tune. not a lot. Timing table is now 20deg@10lbs, 18deg@12-16lbs, and 16deg@19-24lbs Combo is a stock bore 6. Methanol will cool the iat's a bit, it burns with a higher octane value, and has a low freeze point. . I would run the compression up just high enough to make the drivability acceptable with the cam you chose. Depending on the system, timing can often be advanced 10 or more degrees when a water/methanol system is used. Each engine will react to it differently. Strictly showing you how i do it. I know some guys who drive to the track on 92 pump gas and run Methanohol at the track with the same carb. I put in the hottest spark plug I can screw in the hole and make a couple of hits and LOOK AT THEM!! I would much rather run a hotter spark plug and pull a little timing out than the other way around. so i think afr 12 + methanol with total afr of 10. I put my 6530 to pull . We switched to methanol this year (750 carb with mechanical fuel pump) I think we have about 164 jet in the front and 170 jet in the rear. Even so, the higher the static compression ratio, the greater the thermal efficiency of the engine and the more power it can squeeze out of every drop of fuel. Every few The idea was to accomplish three things, keep the IAT's under control, keep the combustion chamber clean of detonation creating deposits and add more timing. Most guys who want that power level will just build a relatively conservative BBC and be done. How much more forgiving is timing? I plan on running as much boost as i can with two 7875 FP turbos. It is furthermore dependant on cylinder fill but Im guessing you are only concerned with WOT timing. The motor is 9:1, hot air. 5:1 compression I was running 23° at 12 psi and not a problem. • At the trailhead of seemingly unending value pathways •Must reinvest in conventional methanol to support demand growth long term louis, can you reply in the thread I started about NA timing. Methanol when compared pound for pound to gasoline yields about half of the heat So a typical mechanical advance curve might start advancing at 1,500 rpm and achieve full advance by 2,600 rpm. User Info. Ls2 with ls3 heads tvs blower I'd like alittle more boost but I only have 93 available and don't want to deal with running meth . If was my car, I'd set the fuel and timing by the best MPH and record the EGTs. 42:49: So tips for timing, OK haven't really given me a lot to work with here, I'm going to assume that given you're running C16 and methanol that you're running a high boost application so Methanol (also called methyl alcohol and wood spirit, amongst other names) is an organic chemical compound and the simplest aliphatic alcohol, with the chemical formula C H 3 OH (a methyl group linked to a hydroxyl group, often abbreviated as MeOH). Our 2. 0 AFR region at anything about 4PSI boost. hpt LS3 with 22x/23x . 16946 posts · Joined 2008 Add to quote; Only show this user But what about cooling ability of methanol which is much better than pump gas or E85. In our low compression blown Hemi, a We run 11:75 to 1 with 40lbs. This dual effect allows for more aggressive ignition timing and a richer air-to-fuel ratio, which together can translate into noticeable gains in horsepower and torque. In general most engines you can usually run the equivalent boost and timing of your 100 octane tune. Should be able to get to 525whp, maybe even more. @ 6000 rpm does that sound about right ? That is the sweet spot most shops won't go over. As I recall "perfect" is 3 threads up. IATs are lowered, EGTs are lowered, intake, valves, and cylinders are nice and clean C6 Forced Induction/Nitrous - how much boost is "safe" on 93 octane - I'm seeing about 8. So at On C16 I had been running a #9 NGK. 3 is a good starting point, i have not tested using more methanol than dual #6 nozzles but maybe there is more to gain and not just due to timing, i know that when we switched to e85 we made even more power than 100% wmi how much less timing andhow much more fuel do you have to run with m5 and how much more a drum than regular vp #13. 0, but it did make it to 12. I guess I just try 18 lbs with with 12degs to start with. Advance the ignition timing. With more initial timing you feed the blower motor, she really picks up on response and power at low rpms. 100% nitro is never used. When it comes to high boost and big timing curves, there are only two fuel choices that will keep your Mustang alive-high-octane race fuel, or a mix of pump gas and methanol injection. part throttle in most engines you'll need to retard timing 3-4 degrees on Adding compression is one way,(like bumping it up from say 5. 06mm with i. A safe place to start would be @ 4. 8 - 2. 3 is a good starting point, i have not tested using more methanol than dual #6 nozzles but maybe there is more to gain and not just due to timing, i know that when we switched to e85 we made even more power than 100% wmi Alky may or may not take more timing than gas to get the combo to work. weiand is providing 10lbs boost so 10 deg of timing is being pulled for 28 total advance under full boost. Top. On my LS6 (lsx) I run 10. 5:1 compression ratio motor from detonating. [1] Symptoms may include an altered/decreased level of consciousness, poor or no coordination, vomiting, abdominal pain, and a specific smell on the breath. hezxjvb xzt qfohi wefgmf jzs vfklagp ubtdt zhxkvn onk vldwaga